1. I'd guess that most US utilities will do everything in their power to prevent you from hooking into the grid. One example from my state: http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c5903220/22945370.html

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by macbot3000

2. Solar panels are NOT good for the environment. Solar panels will NOT make you money. The only thing that makes a solar panel worth while is that it can be used for extended periods of time in remote areas where something mechanical (generator/windmill) may break down over time.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Jordie

3. Here in Germany, this kind of thing is even supported by the government. You can get cheap loans for investments in solar-electric installations, and the utilities are required to pay you about 50ct/kwh, while average electricity charges are only about 15ct/kwh. I wonder if its possible to have some kind of transformer take energy from the grid for 15ct/kwh and feed it back for like 50ct/kwh. Maybe you would need some fake solar panels (cardboard or so) for show. ;-) LeJupp

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by lejupp

4. DIY power - something very cool and very close to my heart. Just haven't go to the doing part yet ;-( Firstly - to restate some other comments - its vital to do what the article mentions proerply - else you will electrocute power workers when there is a blackout next in your area. (ie the 'dead' cable will be 'live' thanks to you) If people are looking for something cheaper, then DIY windmills are very cheap (can be zero cost) and there is a stack of info on that. Just be sure you do it properly - exploding windmill props are very exciting in a bad way. If are in australia then checkout rainbow power. If not then still check them out - they have a great email list with regular updates.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by frak

5. To everyone arguing cost effectiveness, that's is really entirely missing the point. The point of installing solar power isn't so much whether or not it is cost effective, but rather the fact that the energy is cleaner than power from the grid. So whether or not it will take 20 or 60 years for your investment to pay off is irrelevant.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by daniel

6. Well, the state of CA will actually pay for over half your system. I have 15 167 watt panels on my roof, and indeed my meter goes backwards. There is no reason to try to do this illegally, as it's very unsafe, and you don't get benefits.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Cody

7. It may have decreased slightly over the years and of course it varies greatly depending on your expenses, but the last time I checked it averages about 20 years for the investment to pay off. Hopefully this doesn't scare you away from alternative power, but there still is quite a ways to go before it is a very cost effective thing to do. Some states give you tax incentives up to %50 or so so YMMV. There are also some ways to increase the efficiency of solar panels such as using the extra heat absorbed (which reduces efficiency) to heat water but that is a whole other level of complexity.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by jake sheets

8. It may have decreased slightly over the years and of course it varies greatly depending on your expenses, but the last time I checked it averages about 20 years for the investment to pay off. Hopefully this doesn't scare you away from alternative power, but there still is quite a ways to go before it is a very cost effective thing to do. Some states give you tax incentives up to %50 or so so YMMV. There are also some ways to increase the efficiency of solar panels such as using the extra heat absorbed (which reduces efficiency) to heat water but that is a whole other level of complexity.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by jake sheets

9. Uh, am I the only person that has realized that this article was posted to gorilla.net over two years ago!!? why the hell hasn't this surfaced before now!? it is a good idea though...

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by mike Mulligan

10. After reading the articles I thought I'd add.. I've read that hydrogren fuel cell article before, note that this was a long time ago (1993) and prices/availability/optimal chemicals are much different now. Note that for 100W of electricity (not that much at all - a lawn mower is comparitivily more powerful) they paid over $1k installation. Build a windmill instead. :) More time, more power, more fun.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Ross Moffett (shbazjinkens)

11. There's nothing illegal about using solar power, but it certainly IS illegal to hook your solar power setup to the grid without the proper permits. Having said that, while guerrilla solar is indeed illegal (since it is not "permitted"), it's also about doing things safely.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Jeff

12. RE: More electric conservation hacks http://www.scoraigwind.com/index.htm This site has details on building windmills for electrical generation, which includes a homebrew alternator, turbine, and all else involved. Very interesting read, at the least.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Ross Moffett (shbazjinkens)

13. This is fascinating, but unfortunately doesn't make economic sense. If my solar panel installation costs $1000 and puts out 100 watts for five hours a day, that's half a kilowatt hour per day. Let's say each kilowatt hour costs me 8 cents (here in Minnesota.) At that rate, it would take 68 years of operation to get to the break-even point. Let me know if I'm incorrect, but solar panels are, for now, an affectation.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Arthur

14. To expand on Jason's comment, A big part of the permit structure is to ensure the installation is safe, both for occupants in the dwelling and lineworkers. The problem with many hodgpoge installations is that some people don't install a special breaker to prevent power from being fed to the lines if the line power goes out, a potentially deadly setup for lineworkers who may not be expecting the line to be charged. Get the permits and inspection if needed. You will probably have to go through the utility company to get a meter that reads backwards anyways. I dislike pimping other sites, but www.homepower.com is a worthwhile place to go if people want to read about lots of real world installations complete with schematics and payoff charts. Their semi-monthly magazine is a free .PDF to boot!

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Jake Sheets

15. Funny how a mundane, not-exiting thing can be jazzed up by adding a guy in a mask and the word "guerrilla". Coming soon "guerrilla" tire changing and "guerrilla" cat-box cleaning.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Casual Observer

16. Feeding power back into the grid can be very dangerous and you should not be doing it unless it is done correctly and the power company knows about it. For those many people that don't understand the dangers involved: lets say you have a generator kick on when the power goes out, feeding back into the power grid in the process. The power company shuts off the power to those lines to allow the workers to repair them, but your generator is still feeding power back causing the lines to still be live when they should be dead. You've now lured someone who just got dragged out of their home to repair your power right into a dangerous trap. Of course... this isn't much of an issue in densly populated areas as other houses near yours would be grabbing all the power leaked from your generator.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Drakonite

17. no, there's nothing illegal about using solar power, but you should probably check with your local authorities and power company before feeding back to the grid. in addition to permits and such, there are probably liability/insurance issues that need to be addressed. for instance, what happens if your setup takes down power for your area or electrocutes a line worker? anyway, the authors of this article ignored these technicalities to bring you this great hack. more to the topic, though, do you folks know of any other neat hacks involving alternative energy or energy conservation?

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by jason striegel

18. Why would this ever be illegal? Is it even possible for a power meter to go backwards? Plenty of people living in the middle of nowhere run generators from creeks, solar, or wind. This isn't some big illegal practice that 'fights the monopolies.'

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Dax

19. Don't just assume this is legal... I live in canada and I do naturally feel like I'm free to do something like this. However, when I recieved a negative phone bill due to a computer glitch at good old ma Bell I thought I was going to recieve a check instead of being charged with fraud. (Not convicted, I had nothing whatsoever to do with it.) That said, you shouldn't have a problem if you install a panel to feed the grid, just make sure you check with the three branches of government and your utility co.

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by Greg

20. Nice- BUT the totals are disheartening- An average of slightly over 10KWH per month?? The utility companies charge about a buck for that. Will the equipment last long enought to offset the investment?

Posted at 3:35PM on Sep 3rd 2006 by K-bob