1. unsurprising, but nice work and cool demo

obviously this could be fixed with better encryption... but in most cases why even bother?? just use a damn wire, its not the end of the world. you have to be close enough to read the screen anyways...

i hate it when "tech journalists" and the like keep preaching about *everything* going wireless--they just don't get it. wireless is not *better* than wired, it is simply a different method, with its own pros and cons... and shrinking micro-controllers, RF modules, and batteries will not soon make up for the inherent higher security risk, lower availability, and lower bandwidth you get when using wireless over a direct, wired link.

Posted at 7:48PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by alex

2. I don't see many applictions for this since those 27mhz keyboards have dismal range, usually around 4-8 feet.
Still neat that they did this and could possibly lead to some cool homebrew but nothing malicious to worry about here.

Posted at 8:04PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Andrew H

3. @2 - that depends on your snooping gear. Recall all that fuss a few years back about reading monitors through hotel room walls? Of course, most people aren't using wireless keyboards in travel environments, but you could snoop the next cube over if you wanted.

Posted at 8:22PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Andrew Pollack

4. Yeah I never really understood the wireless keyboard for you desktop thing. I know there are situations where they make sense but I think 90% of the people that have them never move their keyboard more then an inch.

Wireless mice on the other hand are god's gift to mankind.

Posted at 8:24PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Raelx

5. I was wondering how wireless mice worked too. I have a Microsoft Wireless Optical Notebook Mouse 4000 and wondered what kind of frequency or protocol it used to connect to its USB adapter.

I really think wireless keyboards are stupid...with a few exceptions. The only place I would really use one is in the living room...where you put the PC display on the TV and use the wireless mouse/keyboard from the couch. Your average desktop doesn't need (and shouldn't have) wireless peripherals (even mice) because it's just a waste of batteries.

For laptop PC's, wireless MICE are nice, because they're small and portable, don't have to worry about a mess of cords on your lap. But since laptops have keyboards built in, there's no need for a wireless keyboard there either.

Posted at 8:55PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by CalcProgrammer1

6. Psshhhh... This is old. I cracked a wireless keyboard just the other day. Sat on it, next thing I knew, CRACK!

Am I missing something?


NOTE: The above post makes use of a literary technique known as "sarcasm." A literal interpretation of said post will result in a deep misunderstanding. The author of this post makes no guarantee of safety regarding this post. Side effects may include extreme confusion and shocked comments.

Posted at 9:18PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by thethirdmoose

7. people have known since the beginning of radio use that nothing wireless has the ability to be as secure as something hardwired, even with the most advanced encryption of the era (re: codebooks, enigma machine, purple)

and yet we still seem to be surprised that wireless items can be listened to by another party.

(to be a little less cynical, i will note that wifi is a gift from the gods)

Posted at 9:36PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by bgugi

8. Now I know how to get our prof's login and password and change my grades. woot!

Posted at 10:16PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by clever student

9. Something that quite a few people seem to be missing is that RF signals are easy to build really sensitive antennas for.
Want to know the real danger of wireless keyboards? Imagine someone with an antenna pointed at a big office building. They could, literally, read every single keystroke, all day, every day, completely passively and untraceably. Directional antennas have given un-amplified WiFi communication up to 125 miles ( http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/31/unamplified-wifi-distance-record-set-at-125-miles/ )... granted, the signals from wireless keyboards are weaker, but we're not talking only-next-door-cubicle range here.

I'm only surprised it's taken this long. I'm sure this isn't the first, but come on. If someone actually noticed it as a possible security hole, it'd likely have been cracked a long time ago.
On a side note, I wonder why there are soooo many spelling errors in the PDF... strange.

Posted at 10:17PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Groxx

10. not surprised at all--what i am surprised at is that it took so long for someone to bother to try breaking it. I would have tried if I didn't think someone else already did it.

what would be more interesting is cracking the encryption mode on some of the logitech keyboards--my old one had a mode where you'd press a special combination and then type a code displayed on the screen in the keyboard. To be honest, I eventually didn't bother doing it and hoped that no one would bother intercepting my keyboard traffic--it was too unreliable, and ran down the batteries too much. I have a wired keyboard now.

Posted at 10:26PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by threepointone

11. Meh, this is why I use a wired keyboard. Wired keyboard + wireless mouse = win. It isnt like im going to be dragging my keyboard around the house with me all day anyways. And im pretty sure nobody can figure out my password based on mouse clicks.

Posted at 10:29PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Squidge

12. So many people hating on the wireless keyboard. I use one at my everyday computer for a few reasons.

1. I only have one desk on my room, and if I want to write on a notebook, or use the desk for some other purpose, I can just toss my keyboard on my bed.

2. If I want to listen to music before I go to bed, I can put the keyboard over near my bed (its about 6 feet away) and I have all the multimedia keys on the keyboard.

As for security, I dont really care if someone is sniffing this comment.

Posted at 11:06PM on Dec 2nd 2007 by Paul

13. @paul: exactly what i was thinking. having a wireless keyboard lets me move my keyboard when i need more desk space (and since I am in college, living in a cramped apartment, this is pretty often.) And I also use my keyboard to listen to control music/mythtv from across the room.
-bryan

Posted at 1:51AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by bryan

14. Someone already mentioned it for monitors, but all electronic gear can be monitored remotely via the airwaves - including wired keyboards just as others have said: with the right listening gear.

Posted at 3:35AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by MadEngineer

15. I use one occasionally too, even though I know the thing is horribly unsecure. I cracked open the receiver for mine and was disappointed to find a pitiful ~1/32 wavelength antenna in it. I replaced it with a 1/4 (or was it 1/8?) wave antenna and saw a vast improvement: It used to not work if the receiver was behind a glass of water; after the mod it worked outside my house.

Could they not just pad the data or something? I assume that would make it so you would at least need the handshake. The easy solution for now is just to swap the chips out for a slightly different freq.


Side note: The Aspell library for the Firefox spell checker does not include "unsecure."

Posted at 4:08AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by Lars Haeh

16. @lars: the word is "insecure".

Posted at 4:29AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by Malcolm Parsons

17. I never used a wireless keyboard or mice, and never will. Wireless keyboards and mice and horrible things when you're a big gamer, as I find happens in my wii the batteries die off right as I'm about to finish off a boss or in the middle of a huge battle. My Wii gives me a warming, wireless mouse/keyboard might but that doesn't pause an online game!

However, on-topic: I figured that it was a simple encryption on the wireless mice and keyboards, but only one byte salting?! that's just sad, microsoft, just sad :'(

Posted at 7:59AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by Sean

18. Not, bad.

Posted at 8:12AM on Dec 3rd 2007 by sp4nk_o$

19. Wireless keyboards aren't that bad because the batteries last months. The downside is the range is pretty bad (a long wire would be better), and also they have no caps/num lock lights on. If they were the same price, I'd go wireless, but I wouldn't pay a penny more.

Wireless mice are best avoided. Although they are occasionally handy (ie. for passing the mouse to a co-worker to find something for you), they run out of batteries far too frequently.

I have the same opinion of everything wireless - if the batteries last at least 6 months and there's no other downside (bandwidth, reliability etc.), then great, but if they last less than that just make it wired.

Posted at 1:03PM on Dec 3rd 2007 by O Mattos

20. Gaming & Wireless mice: very iffy at best. If they claim no lag, they lie. There's always some, and they're never as accurate. I got one of the Logitech 517s, and I love it. Waaay better than any wireless mouse I've ever tried.

As to the batteries running out... I've had a bluetooth mouse for my laptop for over a year now, and still haven't swapped the batteries. Granted, I don't use it all that much, but they're not even down half-way. Under heavy use, I'd expect at least a couple months out of it. And, if you get one of the mice with a "dock" to charge in, charging it is as easy as sticking it there when you go to the bathroom.

Posted at 3:44PM on Dec 3rd 2007 by Groxx